false 'messages' around Medjugorje-'commission'

Post by **Denise** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:05 pm

Bishop of Mostar answers to false 'messages' around Medjugorje-'commission'

Van: Biskupija [mailto:biskupija@gmx.net]
Verzonden: donderdag 3 juli 2008 20:08
Aan: Mark Waterinckx
Onderwerp: Re: E-mail verzenden: KATH.NET - Katholischer Nachrichtendienst

Dear Mark,

you have our issue press release (english and italian) about the "commission".

God bless you.

+ Ratko, bishop

PRESS RELEASE REGARDING THE ALLEGED COMMISSION ON MEDJUGORJE

Mostar, 27 June 2008

The Croatian daily newspaper “Večernji list” on 27 June 2008 published the following sensational headline on its front page: “The Vatican. The highest circles of the Catholic Church have decided to follow the phenomenon of Medjugorje – A new Commission for Medjugorje”, while on page 5 an even more sensational title appeared: “A Commission of the Holy See is being established”, accompanied by the header: “Medjugorje – Cardinal Puljić on the anniversary of the phenomenon of the apparitions of the Madonna”. Regarding this text the following statement is presented:

The text mentions a falsehood that “seventeen years ago the Commission of the Bishops’ Conference of the former Yugoslavia made a decision on Medjugorje declaring that there are no supernatural apparitions and ordered further enquiries…”.

The truth is that no Commission of the Bishops’ Conference made any decision, nor did the Commission order any further enquiry, but that this decision was made competently by the Bishops’ Conference, which on 10 April 1991 declared in Zadar that: “On the basis of investigations made thus far” – hence on the basis of the investigations and conclusions of the Commission established in 1987 by the Bishops’ Conference of that time – “it cannot be affirmed that these events involve supernatural apparitions or revelations”.

The text of the article begins with the affirmation: “The President of the Bishops’ Conference of Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Cardinal Archbishop of Sarajevo Vinko Puljić, announced the formation of a new commission which will investigate the phenomenon and which will be under the jurisdiction of the Holy See”.

This affirmation is then followed by confusing claims and the Cardinal himself in the text that follows refutes the statement in his radio-interview published by “Večernji list”.

The first is that this Commission “will most probably be under the jurisdiction of the Holy See”. Hence it is not clear, but only assumed and anybody’s guess.

Secondly, this Commission “will – if it is established, as is probable – be like an international commission which will override our jurisdiction”.

Thirdly: “It is certain that the international commission will receive, if it is established, different instructions which remain to be seen”.

One may ask what kind of assertions and declarations expressing extremely doubtful statements are these: “Most probably” followed then by “probably”; “if” and then “like”; “it is certain” – “if it is established”; “which remain to be seen”?

A contradiction then appears since this so-called and most probable Commission “will override our jurisdiction” and then: “Yet the local bishop will never be excluded, since he is the most competent person for everything that goes on within a diocese”.

After reading this, even a more than average reader of “Večernji list” will not know: has the formation of a Commission only been pre-announced or is it really being established? Will it finally become a reality and when? Will it be established at all and when? Will it be under the jurisdiction of the Holy See and in which form? Will it override the competency of the Bishops’ Conference of B-H but not the jurisdiction of the local bishop? The only thing that is certain in all of these media announcements, journalistic fabrications and Radio-Medjugorje guesses is that the local bishop of Mostar knows nothing about it at all!

We ask ourselves why do we need such compromising statements and who needs these radio-interviews on the case of Medjugorje for the anniversary of the supposed “apparitions”?

As if we don’t have more important Church issues to deal with in these difficult times and as if there don’t exist more pressing social issues that require our attention in this country, amongst our people and in this region, than the spreading of unfounded, incoherent news and contradictory statements on the phenomenon which was already in 1991 theologically and authoritatively resolved at the level of the Bishops’ Conference which declared: On the basis of comprehensive investigations on the entire phenomenon of Medjugorje – to this day – there has been no valid proof that these events concern supernatural apparitions or revelations!

Don Ante Luburić, Chancellor

Diocesan Chancery Office

Mostar, 27 giugno 2008

Il giornale Večernji list („Corriere della sera“), 27 giugno 2008, riporta sul frontespizio una notizia sensazionale: „Il Vaticano - Apice della Chiesa Cattolica ha deciso di seguire il fenomeno di Medjugorje – Nuova commissione su Medjugorje“, mentre a pag. 5 ancor più sensazionale: „Si istituisce la commissione della Santa Sede“ con l’occhiello: „Medjugorje - il cardinale Puljic nell'anniversario del fenomeno delle apparizioni della Madonna“. Con riferimento al tale testo c’è da osservare quanto segue:

La non verità: Nel testo si legge che “diciassette anni fa la Commissione della Conferenza Episcopale dell’ex-Jugoslavia ha emanato la decisione su Medjugorje affermando che non vi è alcuna apparizione soprannaturale ordinandone ulteriore osservazione…”

La verità: Nessuna Commissione della Conferenza Episcopale ha emanato alcuna decisione né la Commissione ha ordinato alcuna ulteriore inchiesta, poiché tale decisione è di competenza della stessa Conferenza Episcopale la quale il 10 aprile 1991 a Zadar ha dichiarato: “In base alle indagini finora condotte” - quindi anche in base al lavoro e alle conclusioni di tale Commissione istituita dalla stessa CEJ nel 1987 – “non si può affermare che si tratti di apparizioni e rivelazioni soprannaturali”.

Nel testo si riporta innanzi tutto un annuncio: ”Il Presidente della Conferenza Episcopale di Bosnia ed Erzegovina e Arcivescovo di Sarajevo il Cardinale Vinko Puljic ha annunciato l’istituzione della nuova commissione per indagare tale fenomeno, e sarà sotto l’autorità della Santa Sede.”

E poi segue un oscuramento dei concetti: “Infatti, lo stesso Cardinale nel testo successivo smentisce tale affermazione con le sue dichiarazioni nella conversazione radiofonica riportata da Vecernji list:

- primo, che tale Commissione “sarà molto probabilmente sotto l’autorità della Santa Sede” - quindi non è del tutto sicuro, ma si suppone, e poi si raccapezzi chi può.

- secondo, che tale Commissione “apparirà - se sarà costituita, e probabilmente lo sarà - come una commissione internazionale che supera la nostra giurisdizione”. E ancor questa:

- terzo: “E’ certo che tale commissione internazionale avrà, se sarà costituita, altre istruzioni e vedremo di che cosa si tratta”.

Di che tipo sono questi annunci condizionali e dichiarazioni con le espressioni del tutto non sicure: “probabilissimo” - poi “probabile, inoltre “se” e poi “come”, infine “sicuramente avrà” poi se “sarà costituita”, “vedremo di che cosa tratta”.

Tale presunta e probabilissima Commissione “supererà la nostra giurisdizione”, e invece: “Il vescovo locale, certo, non sarà mai escluso, poiché egli è in primo luogo competente per tutto quel che succede in una diocesi”.

Ora, anche il lettore non medio del Vecernji list non sa quanto segue: la Commissione è solo annunciata o realmente viene istituita? Sarà finalmente istituita? E quando? Verrà in vita affatto o no? E quando? Sarà sotto la competenza della Santa Sede? In quale forma? Supererà la competenza della Conferenza Episcopale di BiH, e non solo la competenza del vescovo locale? E’ certo che di tutti questi “annunci” attraverso i media, di “istituzioni” create dai giornalisti e di indovinelli di Radio-Medjugorje il vescovo locale di Mostar non ne ha la minima idea.

Infine ci chiediamo: perché queste dichiarazioni compromettenti e chi ha bisogno di queste radio-conversazioni sul caso di Medjugorje nell’anniversario delle cosiddette “apparizioni”?

Sembra che non ci siano delle attività ecclesiali più pertinenti in questo tempo così serio, e che non ci siano dei temi sociali più incisivi in questo paese, popolazione e regione della diffusione di notizie infondate e irragionevoli e di dichiarazioni contraddittorie sul fenomeno che nel 1991 è stato qualificato in maniera teologicamente competente a livello della Conferenza Episcopale che ha accertato: In base alla completa indagine - fino ad allora - non vi è alcuna prova valida, in tutto l’evento di Medjugorje, che si tratti di apparizioni e rivelazioni soprannaturali.

Don Ante Luburić, cancelliere

KevinSymonds · Post by **KevinSymonds** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:09 pm

You beat me to it!!

-KJS

Post by **Denise** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:37 pm

I tried

You snooze, you looze

KevinSymonds · Post by **KevinSymonds** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:15 pm

PARTY FOUL!!

I had the graveyard shift, then a staff meeting, then needed sleep.

Post by **Denise** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:00 pm

I just got up from my nap before you

MarieT · Post by **MarieT** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:07 am

so there is NO commission...wonder if it will be believed this time lol

ahemmm

The only thing that is certain in all of these media announcements, journalistic fabrications and Radio-Medjugorje guesses is that the local bishop of Mostar knows nothing about it at all!

sad indeed when they do that to discredit the poor Bishop. God love and protect him always. He must go through soooo much.
prayers for his sanity and wellbeing

marie in oz

KevinSymonds · Post by **KevinSymonds** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:06 am

I am sick of this whole affair and I am seriously considering denouncing Michael Brown in an ecclesiastical court.

http://d-rium.blogspot.com/2008/07/mich ... ishop.html

-KJS

KevinSymonds · Post by **KevinSymonds** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:54 am

Continue to read that correspondence. It will blow your minds.

-KJS

Post by **Denise** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:10 am

I have sent an email requesting that this press release be put on the bishop's site in English and whatever other language they can muster. I went there and didn't find it. I think that it would be a great idea to be able to provide a link straight to the Diocesan site.

denise

MarieT · Post by **MarieT** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:52 pm

"there are none so blind as those whom do not see "

I reckon if Pope Benedict himself announced "pilgrimmages to Medj are forbidden" they would still go.

marie

Μοderator's Note: edited by MarieT - to read "pilgrimmages to medj are forbidden"

MaggieH · Post by **MaggieH** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:58 am

MarieT wrote:"there are none so blind as those whom do not see "

I reckon if Pope Benedict himself announced "pilgrimmages to Medj are forbidden" they would still go.

marie

Μοderator's Note: edited by MarieT - to read "pilgrimmages to medj are forbidden"

It worries me that some ardent believers in Medj. will still believe even when the Vatican denounces it as a hoax. It has passed through my mind that perhaps the Vatican is worried that some may even become suicidal.
I pray that won't be the case.

By the way, you folks are the tops at finding stuff , keep up the good work !

Post by **Denise** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:03 pm

Medjugorje and the Vatican 2008

Richard Salbato July 11, 2008