I think Rick should suspend that article on his site until the approval is given.
To be honest, I'm not sure how this one flew under his radar screen, though I am sure it was an honest mistake.
-KJS
Our Lady appeared to Sr. Mary Ephrem.
Kevin believe me, he is working on this. Now I have read some of the messages and so far I have not seen anything against faith or morals. I am just concerned that there are those striking statues and publishing books, and having processions without approval of the proper authority.
Rick knows what he is doing, he has been at this for over thirty years. He will add to his page when he gets the information he is searching for.
Blessings
Denise
Rick knows what he is doing, he has been at this for over thirty years. He will add to his page when he gets the information he is searching for.
Blessings
Denise
The revelations included apparitions of Our Lord and St. Joseph as well as St. Gabriel and St. Michael, as well as apparitions of The Blessed Virgin Mary as "Our Lady of America"
The part that bothers me is what Joseph says in his apparition to her. Mary appears one day and says that Joseph will appear. He appears the next day (or whenever) just as she says he would. But he says God chose him(Joseph) as His representative on eart and that he(joseph) is" the Virgin father of His (God's) own divine Son."
And on another day he tells her...
"The privelive of being chosen by God to be the Virgin-Father of His Son was mine alone and no honor, excluding that bestowed upon my Holy Spouse was ever or will ever be as sublime or high as this."
The fact that Joseph seems to be implying that he is ever virgin is troublesome to me. Where in the world did those "siblings" of Jesus, mentioned in the bible come from?? I am also a bit troubled by the fact that these wods don't seem to be as humble as I imagine Joseph to be. I dunno. Something about all this just doesn't ring true, even though there are other parts that I do want to believe.
When in doubt, trust the Church. She hasn't approved this, and until she does, I am not going to pay it any heed. After all, even approved apparitions aren't mandatory for salvation.
The part that bothers me is what Joseph says in his apparition to her. Mary appears one day and says that Joseph will appear. He appears the next day (or whenever) just as she says he would. But he says God chose him(Joseph) as His representative on eart and that he(joseph) is" the Virgin father of His (God's) own divine Son."
And on another day he tells her...
"The privelive of being chosen by God to be the Virgin-Father of His Son was mine alone and no honor, excluding that bestowed upon my Holy Spouse was ever or will ever be as sublime or high as this."
The fact that Joseph seems to be implying that he is ever virgin is troublesome to me. Where in the world did those "siblings" of Jesus, mentioned in the bible come from?? I am also a bit troubled by the fact that these wods don't seem to be as humble as I imagine Joseph to be. I dunno. Something about all this just doesn't ring true, even though there are other parts that I do want to believe.
When in doubt, trust the Church. She hasn't approved this, and until she does, I am not going to pay it any heed. After all, even approved apparitions aren't mandatory for salvation.
Domine Non Sum Dignus!
Holiness is not for wimps and the cross is not negotiable, sweetheart, it's a requirement.
~ Mother Angelica
Holiness is not for wimps and the cross is not negotiable, sweetheart, it's a requirement.
~ Mother Angelica
Yes, of course Denise. That's why I put the words in quotes. Sorry to be confusing. The words are literally "brothers and sisters" although the word translated as such is also used for cousins.
Still, it was my understanding that Joseph had a deceased wife previous to Mary and that it was children of this marrige that the passage were refering to. Perhaps I have been misinformed.
Still, it was my understanding that Joseph had a deceased wife previous to Mary and that it was children of this marrige that the passage were refering to. Perhaps I have been misinformed.
Domine Non Sum Dignus!
Holiness is not for wimps and the cross is not negotiable, sweetheart, it's a requirement.
~ Mother Angelica
Holiness is not for wimps and the cross is not negotiable, sweetheart, it's a requirement.
~ Mother Angelica
Did St. Joseph marry a second time?
23 Questions & answers about Jesus Christ, prepared by a team of catholic theologians of the University of Navarre.
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=16059
This is question 3: "Did St. Joseph marry a second time?"
December 01, 2000
● According to St Matthew, when Mary virginally conceived Jesus, she was betrothed to St Joseph, and they were yet living together (Matt 1:18). This happened during the time within the betrothal period which, among the Jews, involved such a strong and true commitment that the engaged couple were referred to as spouses. So strong a commitment indeed, that it could only be annulled by rejection.
► From St Matthew’s Gospel, it is clear that the angel appeared to Joseph to explain that Mary has conceived a child by the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:20); and only then did Mary and Joseph marry and live together. The next few passages of this Gospel confirm this: Mary and Joseph share the escape into Egypt, settle later in Nazareth, and afterwards, they find Jesus among the doctors of the Law, in the Temple of Jerusalem (Luke 2:41-45).
►Furthermore, when St Luke describes the annunciation, he refers to Mary as “a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David”. According to the Gospels, then, St Joseph was indeed married to the Most Holy Virgin Mary. That is certainly the only conclusion truly reflected in the historical tradition documented in the Gospels.
● Nevertheless, whether this was St Joseph’s first or second marriage, or whether St Joseph was just an old widower who only took care of Mary, can only be part of speculative legends with no historical guarantee of authenticity.
► The first mention in these legends is found in the “Proto-gospel according to James”, from the 2nd century. This text tells us that Mary stayed in the Temple since she was three; and when she turned twelve, the priests searched for someone who could take care of her. The priests convened the widowers of the town, and when an extraordinary sign happened to Joseph’s staff – a dove appeared from it – they handed custody of Our Lady to Joseph. According to this legend, Joseph didn’t take Mary as his spouse: when the angel appeared in Joseph’s dreams, he does not say, as he did in Matthew’s gospel, “Do not fear to take Mary your wife”. Instead, the angel only says, “Be not afraid for this maiden” (XIV, 2).
►Other later apocrypha, known as the “pseudo-Matthew”, perhaps from the 6th century, elaborates this story accepting that the priests said to Joseph: “to no other can she be joined in marriage” (VIII, 4), although it only refers to St Joseph as Mary’s custodian.
► The fact that Mary was indeed betrothed to Joseph is, on the other hand, accepted in various other texts: in the “Book of Mary’s Nativity” – a summary of the “pseudo-Matthew” apocrypha and also in the “Story of Joseph, the carpenter” (IV, 4-5).
● This diversity and lack of consensus confirm that there is not enough evidence to say that St Joseph was married before knowing Mary.
● It seems more logical to believe that Joseph was a young man when he betrothed to the Most Holy Virgin Mary, and that it was that his only marriage.
23 Questions & answers about Jesus Christ, prepared by a team of catholic theologians of the University of Navarre.
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=16059
This is question 3: "Did St. Joseph marry a second time?"
December 01, 2000
● According to St Matthew, when Mary virginally conceived Jesus, she was betrothed to St Joseph, and they were yet living together (Matt 1:18). This happened during the time within the betrothal period which, among the Jews, involved such a strong and true commitment that the engaged couple were referred to as spouses. So strong a commitment indeed, that it could only be annulled by rejection.
► From St Matthew’s Gospel, it is clear that the angel appeared to Joseph to explain that Mary has conceived a child by the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:20); and only then did Mary and Joseph marry and live together. The next few passages of this Gospel confirm this: Mary and Joseph share the escape into Egypt, settle later in Nazareth, and afterwards, they find Jesus among the doctors of the Law, in the Temple of Jerusalem (Luke 2:41-45).
►Furthermore, when St Luke describes the annunciation, he refers to Mary as “a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David”. According to the Gospels, then, St Joseph was indeed married to the Most Holy Virgin Mary. That is certainly the only conclusion truly reflected in the historical tradition documented in the Gospels.
● Nevertheless, whether this was St Joseph’s first or second marriage, or whether St Joseph was just an old widower who only took care of Mary, can only be part of speculative legends with no historical guarantee of authenticity.
► The first mention in these legends is found in the “Proto-gospel according to James”, from the 2nd century. This text tells us that Mary stayed in the Temple since she was three; and when she turned twelve, the priests searched for someone who could take care of her. The priests convened the widowers of the town, and when an extraordinary sign happened to Joseph’s staff – a dove appeared from it – they handed custody of Our Lady to Joseph. According to this legend, Joseph didn’t take Mary as his spouse: when the angel appeared in Joseph’s dreams, he does not say, as he did in Matthew’s gospel, “Do not fear to take Mary your wife”. Instead, the angel only says, “Be not afraid for this maiden” (XIV, 2).
►Other later apocrypha, known as the “pseudo-Matthew”, perhaps from the 6th century, elaborates this story accepting that the priests said to Joseph: “to no other can she be joined in marriage” (VIII, 4), although it only refers to St Joseph as Mary’s custodian.
► The fact that Mary was indeed betrothed to Joseph is, on the other hand, accepted in various other texts: in the “Book of Mary’s Nativity” – a summary of the “pseudo-Matthew” apocrypha and also in the “Story of Joseph, the carpenter” (IV, 4-5).
● This diversity and lack of consensus confirm that there is not enough evidence to say that St Joseph was married before knowing Mary.
● It seems more logical to believe that Joseph was a young man when he betrothed to the Most Holy Virgin Mary, and that it was that his only marriage.
Thank you for the clarification, Denise. It would seem that I have indeed been misinformed if not misled.
I wish I could tell you where I heard, or more accurately read that Joseph was older when he married Mary. Truth is that I read it so long ago, I no longer remember. I read it on some random website when I was converting to Catholicism and was researching exactly who those aforementoned cousins (wrongly called siblings) were. I suppose its better not to link to incorrect websites anyhow.
I wish I could tell you where I heard, or more accurately read that Joseph was older when he married Mary. Truth is that I read it so long ago, I no longer remember. I read it on some random website when I was converting to Catholicism and was researching exactly who those aforementoned cousins (wrongly called siblings) were. I suppose its better not to link to incorrect websites anyhow.
Domine Non Sum Dignus!
Holiness is not for wimps and the cross is not negotiable, sweetheart, it's a requirement.
~ Mother Angelica
Holiness is not for wimps and the cross is not negotiable, sweetheart, it's a requirement.
~ Mother Angelica
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KevinSymonds
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:38 am
I believe it was the revered St. Jerome who also obliterated the oral lore (not tradition) that St. Joseph had children from a previous marriage.
So those statements are not entirely outside of the boundary, but they are borderline. Nowhere has anyone ever spoken of St. Joseph in such strong terms as 'virgin-father.' That seems very wrong to me.
I'm telling you, there's something really wrong with this whole thing and I can't put my finger on it.
-KJS
So those statements are not entirely outside of the boundary, but they are borderline. Nowhere has anyone ever spoken of St. Joseph in such strong terms as 'virgin-father.' That seems very wrong to me.
I'm telling you, there's something really wrong with this whole thing and I can't put my finger on it.
-KJS
One of the whole things that bothers me the most is the title given to this..."Our Lady of the Americas." It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that that title belongs to Our Lady of Guadalupe since she is truly the patroness of the Americas.
Denise,
You are doing a great job as always for "fleshing" out these and all supposed apparitions. What a great teacher you are!
Blessings,
Lori
Denise,
You are doing a great job as always for "fleshing" out these and all supposed apparitions. What a great teacher you are!
Blessings,
Lori
Rick and I have been discussing this Our Lady of America and the situation. What he said to me in reply to an email makes some sense. I would still like to see the present bishop make a statement on this.
After all these years there is no negative statements from anyone. This is a good sign. Of the major tests involved she passes all of them even approval, since the bishop who knew her approved of her. As I see her prophesies it could be no other way.
Rick
After all these years there is no negative statements from anyone. This is a good sign. Of the major tests involved she passes all of them even approval, since the bishop who knew her approved of her. As I see her prophesies it could be no other way.
Rick
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KevinSymonds
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:38 am
Unfortunately Denise and I know all about "Anne, the lay apostle" and her lame books that have an imprimatur from a retired bishop from the philipines who has never been her bishop and therefore his imprimatur is not worth a "hill of beans" in regards to her delusions.
I suggest you pray for her and those who will mistakenly follow her.
Denise put the link on...please
I suggest you pray for her and those who will mistakenly follow her.
Denise put the link on...please