This question is something I have been pondering for some time. I should probably consult a priest. The problem is finding the right one.
I wonder if following apparitions and private revelations that are from the devil could lead to problems in one's life. After all, we are warned about dabbling in the occult - that can open us up to evil. What about following an apparition very closely that may come from the enemy. Some people live their lives by these things. They have images and statues from apparition sites in their homes. Some of them also have unbelievable problems. I realize that problems are a part of life and that some people have more problems than others. But, I still wonder if we could do ourselves harm by latching on to something that is not from God. I have never seen this addressed in any article or forum. Any thoughts?
participation in false apparitions
I would agree with this. Anything that is of the devil can indeed lead us astray. I would venture to say that if we allow ourselves to be pulled in by apparitions or anything else that is not of God we would be in big trouble. I believe we must always look to see what the fruits of an apparition are. Does it breed discord? Are people rebellious in regards to the Church even if Church officials are wrong? It seems to me that the legitimate saints were ALWAYS submissive to the Church.
For example, Saint Bernadette Soubirous always submitted to the leadership of the Church, even when the Church leaders were dead wrong. Saint Pio would not speak ill of the Church leaders even when they slandered him. I think we should always look at the fruits of an apparition or so called saint.
For example, Saint Bernadette Soubirous always submitted to the leadership of the Church, even when the Church leaders were dead wrong. Saint Pio would not speak ill of the Church leaders even when they slandered him. I think we should always look at the fruits of an apparition or so called saint.
Mary, I have read many books by exorcists and some are old writings. Fr. Paul has all my books on this subject so I cannot refer you to which book or exorcist, I would have to look through them all.
Anyway, one of the exorcists was warning about having things in your home that are immoral or things that were not from God and he said that the devil can work through these things. He said to get rid of anything that one has that would not honor God.
The devil is already at work in the lives of those who are disobedient to the Church whether they have some object in their home or they hold false doctrine etc. in their hearts. They are puppets of the devil of and for the devil and the sad thing is that many don't even know it.
I have sent out a request for some information about this. We will try to find the information you are looking for, written by someone credible. Wish I had my books.
I will get back with you.
Blessings
Denise
Anyway, one of the exorcists was warning about having things in your home that are immoral or things that were not from God and he said that the devil can work through these things. He said to get rid of anything that one has that would not honor God.
The devil is already at work in the lives of those who are disobedient to the Church whether they have some object in their home or they hold false doctrine etc. in their hearts. They are puppets of the devil of and for the devil and the sad thing is that many don't even know it.
I have sent out a request for some information about this. We will try to find the information you are looking for, written by someone credible. Wish I had my books.
I will get back with you.
Blessings
Denise
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KevinSymonds
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:38 am
Fr. Amorth is an excellent resource for all things exorcism.
He is, however, a believer in Medjugorje. Foley documented it in his book "Understanding Medjugorje." I heard a rumor that Amorth was a believer, but now that it's documented, it's a little easier to believe he is a believer in Medjugorje.
That said, I want to share something with all of you that has been on my mind for some time now. I'm thinking of writing a book or essay on the subject in the future and I realize that anyone could swipe my idea and write on it from this Forum. Let us remember charity.
Warning: LONG POST
There's a dangerous trend that I've noticed among so-called 'orthodox' Catholics (and even in some non-Catholics). It's a dangerous trend to credulity and in some cases, extreme credulity.
Perhaps you have heard of the following analogy in terms of orthodoxy:
"The situation in the Church today is like a pendulum. It swung one way after the Council and now it's going back the other way."
Personally, I don't believe in this analogy. It falls too far short of reality to be salvaged. Why does it fall short? Because it isn't about a pendulum swinging fate around. It's about Divine Providence and what God wills for our salvation.
The older generation that remembers what the Church was like before Vatican II is slowly but surely dying off. With them goes that precious knowledge of what it was like having a somewhat coherent picture of what it means to be a Catholic and live a Catholic life. After the Council, when all hell broke loose, a generational gap was formed. A break in the line of communication of tradition, if you will (I am not speaking of doctrine here proper, but rather of proper conduct as a Catholic). Now comes my generation (1980's and up) who are the children of those caught in the gap. There's a growing problem here.
The problem, let me pose it in the form of a question, is "just what was lost in translation? This gap or break in a stable Catholic life/environment has left people scrambling for some safehold, a grip on sanity in the midst of a troubled world.
Now comes my generation and the next one after mine who are learning from those who are just learning themselves. This is akin to the blind leading the blind in some retrospects, but not all. What, I ask again, is or has already been, lost? Is anything lost in the first place?
I say yes and here's why.
Many of you know that I am a student at Franciscan University of Steubenville. You may have read my recent post about an article that John Vennari of Catholic Family News wrote about the University. While I disagree with his schismatic/conspiracy theories, his description of what happened during the charismatic conference in June of this year is accurate. So what's the big deal?
It's his accuracy that makes his article something to contend with.
When he describes what goes on during the 'charismatic holy hour,' he writes in such a way that the reader can't help but think, "oh my goodness!! What are they doing to Jesus in the Eucharist!!?? This is the sin of blasphemy and sacrilege!" Vennari is right to do such because what has happened in such controlled environments of 'charismatic worship' of the Eucharist is the creation of a thin veneer of religion leading to an undignified treatment of the Eucharist.
The propagation of these things worries me.
During the last conference of this summer, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR, got up on the podium to deliver the Holy Hour meditation. He opened it up with a plug for the participants to "give [money] until it hurts" in support of the University which, "is on the cutting edge [of the new evangelization]." What is most insidious about this is that people are deluded to think that the new evangelization is about the kind(s) of things that happen at Franciscan as regards the treatment/practicing of our religion--the holy Faith established by God Himself!
Let me ask you, if the younger generation (mine and our successors) think that the kind(s) of things that Franciscan University does is orthodox and in line with the Church's Magisterium, what can we say for our youth?
I recall a conversation with a moderator about a conversation that he/she had with a Franciscan student in Lourdes. Said student was going on a train to Medjugorje and was warned by said moderator about it. Moderator was told to basically chill out and not worry.
Not worry? Your immortal soul is at stake and you're telling someone worried about it to not worry? Where is any sense of Catholic teaching put into practical life? One thing is for sure, don't send that student out to the mission territories!
I weep for my generation and those coming after. People around here at Franciscan think I'm an angry person and that I have emotional problems kept bottled up inside of me. The problems I have are things only God can understand and would that I could tell them in human language.
My friends, eyes hath not seen nor ears hath heard what it is that God has in store for them. What awaits us in heaven makes all here on earth--suffering included--absolutely nothing. Therefore, let us fight for the true Faith, in holy obedience of His commands that we may run the way of unspeakable sweetness of love!
In conclusion and summary, my point is very simple. What is going into the minds of our youth? What impressions are we giving them about worship and reverence towards the Eucharist? Are we giving them a truly Catholic formation and education or a largely Protestant one?
Just who is doing the evangelizing?
Peace!
-Kevin Symonds
He is, however, a believer in Medjugorje. Foley documented it in his book "Understanding Medjugorje." I heard a rumor that Amorth was a believer, but now that it's documented, it's a little easier to believe he is a believer in Medjugorje.
That said, I want to share something with all of you that has been on my mind for some time now. I'm thinking of writing a book or essay on the subject in the future and I realize that anyone could swipe my idea and write on it from this Forum. Let us remember charity.
Warning: LONG POST
There's a dangerous trend that I've noticed among so-called 'orthodox' Catholics (and even in some non-Catholics). It's a dangerous trend to credulity and in some cases, extreme credulity.
Perhaps you have heard of the following analogy in terms of orthodoxy:
"The situation in the Church today is like a pendulum. It swung one way after the Council and now it's going back the other way."
Personally, I don't believe in this analogy. It falls too far short of reality to be salvaged. Why does it fall short? Because it isn't about a pendulum swinging fate around. It's about Divine Providence and what God wills for our salvation.
The older generation that remembers what the Church was like before Vatican II is slowly but surely dying off. With them goes that precious knowledge of what it was like having a somewhat coherent picture of what it means to be a Catholic and live a Catholic life. After the Council, when all hell broke loose, a generational gap was formed. A break in the line of communication of tradition, if you will (I am not speaking of doctrine here proper, but rather of proper conduct as a Catholic). Now comes my generation (1980's and up) who are the children of those caught in the gap. There's a growing problem here.
The problem, let me pose it in the form of a question, is "just what was lost in translation? This gap or break in a stable Catholic life/environment has left people scrambling for some safehold, a grip on sanity in the midst of a troubled world.
Now comes my generation and the next one after mine who are learning from those who are just learning themselves. This is akin to the blind leading the blind in some retrospects, but not all. What, I ask again, is or has already been, lost? Is anything lost in the first place?
I say yes and here's why.
Many of you know that I am a student at Franciscan University of Steubenville. You may have read my recent post about an article that John Vennari of Catholic Family News wrote about the University. While I disagree with his schismatic/conspiracy theories, his description of what happened during the charismatic conference in June of this year is accurate. So what's the big deal?
It's his accuracy that makes his article something to contend with.
When he describes what goes on during the 'charismatic holy hour,' he writes in such a way that the reader can't help but think, "oh my goodness!! What are they doing to Jesus in the Eucharist!!?? This is the sin of blasphemy and sacrilege!" Vennari is right to do such because what has happened in such controlled environments of 'charismatic worship' of the Eucharist is the creation of a thin veneer of religion leading to an undignified treatment of the Eucharist.
The propagation of these things worries me.
During the last conference of this summer, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR, got up on the podium to deliver the Holy Hour meditation. He opened it up with a plug for the participants to "give [money] until it hurts" in support of the University which, "is on the cutting edge [of the new evangelization]." What is most insidious about this is that people are deluded to think that the new evangelization is about the kind(s) of things that happen at Franciscan as regards the treatment/practicing of our religion--the holy Faith established by God Himself!
Let me ask you, if the younger generation (mine and our successors) think that the kind(s) of things that Franciscan University does is orthodox and in line with the Church's Magisterium, what can we say for our youth?
I recall a conversation with a moderator about a conversation that he/she had with a Franciscan student in Lourdes. Said student was going on a train to Medjugorje and was warned by said moderator about it. Moderator was told to basically chill out and not worry.
Not worry? Your immortal soul is at stake and you're telling someone worried about it to not worry? Where is any sense of Catholic teaching put into practical life? One thing is for sure, don't send that student out to the mission territories!
I weep for my generation and those coming after. People around here at Franciscan think I'm an angry person and that I have emotional problems kept bottled up inside of me. The problems I have are things only God can understand and would that I could tell them in human language.
My friends, eyes hath not seen nor ears hath heard what it is that God has in store for them. What awaits us in heaven makes all here on earth--suffering included--absolutely nothing. Therefore, let us fight for the true Faith, in holy obedience of His commands that we may run the way of unspeakable sweetness of love!
In conclusion and summary, my point is very simple. What is going into the minds of our youth? What impressions are we giving them about worship and reverence towards the Eucharist? Are we giving them a truly Catholic formation and education or a largely Protestant one?
Just who is doing the evangelizing?
Peace!
-Kevin Symonds
When I found this out I basically quit advertising his books. There are too many other books out there by non questionable people. If he can't see that Medj. is NOT FROM GOD, then how can he possible see that the devil is possessing someone? Makes no sense to me.He is, however, a believer in Medjugorje.
Mary, I will probably be posting something tomorrow that will be written just for your concern.
I can't wait to read it.Blessings
Denise
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KevinSymonds
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:38 am
Jeni,
I will find you the document from the Bishop of Mostar himself that names Amorth a conspirator in the farce at Medj.
Jeni, go to google and write. Amorth Medjugorje. You will see his interview in 2002 while he was in Medj.
Below is a quote from the Bishop. His full document is:
http://www.unitypublishing.com/newswire/truth.html
I will find you the document from the Bishop of Mostar himself that names Amorth a conspirator in the farce at Medj.
Jeni, go to google and write. Amorth Medjugorje. You will see his interview in 2002 while he was in Medj.
Below is a quote from the Bishop. His full document is:
http://www.unitypublishing.com/newswire/truth.html
[/url]4. The main players on which Medjugorje rests are retired archbishop F. Franic, R. Laurentin, Lj. Rupcic OFM, Amorth, Rastrelli S.J., and some franciscans and charismatics from all over the world.
Like Denise I too do not recommend Amorth's books to anyone. He doesn't know his mother. He is disobedient to the local ordinary and therefore is not in communion with Rome. I pray for his quick return to obedience. Once that is accomplished I will gladly rethink my "book of the month" recommendations.
Blessings,
Lori
Blessings,
Lori
I would be interested in Father Paul’s response to this. I mean Fr. Paul recommended this book last year (or the year before) to his whole parish several times in fact. As of my last visit to St. Williams, Fr. Amorth's book was still being sold in the church gift shop. Has Fr. Paul retracted his endorsement of Fr. Amorth?