holding 'handsies' during "Our Father"

[MarieT]

well our priest has introduced the practise of holding hands during the 'our Father" prayer in the Sunday liturgy ....argggh

i respectfully refused when asked by parishioners next to me (mind you i went to sit alone to avoid being put into this predicament but latecomers found their way to the pew i was sitting in)

i mentioned to a friend of mine (one who extended her hand -right side) that i would "explain later".....she replied "you dont have to, if you're not doing it then you have a valid reason" phewww....but nevertheless i had to explain

after Mass i explained that its not in the rubrics and we cannot just introduce liturgical postures ourselves......i reiterated fr macnamara (regina apostolorum - rome) response to many whom have written there asking for clarification about this new practise.
There is no bishop documentation (archdiocese of melbourne) that i know of that allows this let alone any 'go ahead' from the Holy See.

It is true that there is no prescribed posture for the hands during the Our Father and that, so far at least, neither the Holy See nor the U.S. bishops' conference has officially addressed it.

The argument from silence is not very strong, however, because while there is no particular difficulty in a couple, family or a small group spontaneously holding hands during the Our Father, a problem arises when the entire assembly is expected or obliged to do so.

The process for introducing any new rite or gesture into the liturgy in a stable or even binding manner is already contemplated in liturgical law. This process entails a two-thirds majority vote in the bishops' conference and the go-ahead from the Holy See before any change may take effect.
Thus, if neither the bishops' conference nor the Holy See has seen fit to prescribe any posture for the recitation of the Our Father, it hardly behooves any lesser authority to impose a novel gesture not required by liturgical law and expect the faithful to follow their decrees.

While there are no directions as to the posture of the faithful, the rubrics clearly direct the priest and any concelebrants to pray the Our Father with hands extended -- so they at least should not hold hands.

One could argue that holding hands expresses the family union of the Church. But our singing or reciting the prayer in unison already expresses this element.

The act of holding hands usually emphasizes group or personal unity from the human or physical point of view and is thus more typical of the spontaneity of small groups. Hence it does not always transfer well into the context of larger gatherings where some people feel uncomfortable and a bit imposed upon when doing so.
The use of this practice during the Our Father could detract and distract from the prayer's God-directed sense of adoration and petition, as explained in Nos. 2777-2865 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in favor of a more horizontal and merely human meaning.

For all of these reasons, no one should have any qualms about not participating in this gesture if disinclined to do so. They will be simply following the universal customs of the Church, and should not be accused of being a cause of disharmony.

source
marie

[Denise]

Marie, I just bow my head, close my eyes and fold my hands in prayer. No one seems to bother me when I do that. Try that and see if those around you just leave you alone.

[MarieT]

sis i tried everything.....i've had my hand forceably grabbed against resistance....serious

marie

[MarieT]

i forgot to mention that it only occurs during the sunday mass (i usually attend the vigil mass on Saturday night and it hasnt been mentioned) however this weekend (and on occasion on a couple of other weekends) i had a very important function that i didnt return in time for mass (pelting rain, strong winds etc....)

I'll have to attend the Sunday morning Masses next week also because i'm rostered for fundraising b4 and after Mass.

marie

[Johnna]

I ususally do the same thing as Denise with the same results. I have the added benefit of my baby being more than a handful, so if anyone did try to hold my hand, they wouldn't feel snubbed because I wasn't reaching out to them, but it isn't a huge problem. The only one who seems to care is my 8 year old, who cannot understand why her mommy should know better than everyone in every parish we've ever visited both before and after the move. Her mind cannot understand why priests would allow it if it isn't right. If this or that priest allowed it, I think she would understand. But literally every one, and even the bishop of Gary diocese? It is so common here that it was a littls surprising to hear that there are places where it is being intruocuced.

I am sure Father Paul has alot to say about it though. I'm a bit surprised it is a problem in Denise's parish.

[Denise]

Here is a snipit of an article at Catholic Answers
****************************
ORIGINS OF HAND-HOLDING

The current issue of the "Adoremus Bulletin" says this in response to a query from a priest in the Bronx:

"No gesture for the people during the Lord's Prayer is mentioned in the official documents. The late liturgist Fr. Robert Hovda promoted holding hands during this prayer, a practice he said originated in Alcoholics Anonymous. Some 'charismatic' groups took up the practice."

My long-time sense had been that hand-holding at the Our Father was an intrusion from charismaticism, but I had not been aware of the possible connection with AA. If this is the real origin of the practice, it makes it doubly odd: first, because hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace), and second, because modifications to liturgical rites ought to arise organically and not be borrowed from secular self-help groups.

Periodically, on "Catholic Answers Live" I am asked about hand-holding during Mass and explain that it is contrary to the rubrics. Usually I get follow-up e-mails from people who say, "But it's my favorite part of the Mass" or "We hold hands as a family, and it makes us feel closer."

About the latter I think, "It's good to feel close as a family, but you can hold hands at home or at the mall. The Mass has a formal structure that should be respected. That means you forgo certain things that you might do on the outside."

About the former comment I think, "If this is the high point of the Mass for you, you need to take Remedial Mass 101. The Mass is not a social event. It is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, and it is the loftiest form of prayer. It should be attended with appropriate solemnity."

[MarieT]

jb i'm serious when i say that i've had my hand forceably grabbed while heads down and my arms are interlocked even. Poor dear thought she was doing me a favour ... by "including' me
m7

[Johnna]

Marie, I am sorry that this is such a distraction for you. Closing my eyes during the our father eliminates the distraction for me, but then again I haven't had someone try to rip my hand away from its posture. Usually my posture and avoiding eye contact with my neighbors is enough to keep my hands from being held, whereas if I catch that person's eye they will be more likely to reach for my hand. The problem is that right in the middle of mass is the worst time to be explaining to someone that it isn't just that you don't want to hold their hand, but that you SHOULDN'T be holding their hand. On the rare occasion that it would be more disruptive to NOT hold hands, I just go ahead and hold, continuing with the mass. God knows I am trying to do right, and I hope that is enough.

[MarieT]

thing is that knowing what i know now, i feel guilty if i participate in this illegitimate practise.

Fr Macnamara from the Regina Apostolorum (Rome) states that to 'legally' introduce this practise, there would have to be a bishops meeting which turned a two thirds vote in favour of it, and THEN it had to go to Rome for the final approval of the Holy See before any postures can be introduced or changed etc....

marie :S

[Lori]

We have plenty of hand holding at St. William's. Usually I sit in the front and don't see it but every once in a while I sit in the back and there are lots and lots of folks holding hands.

My family takes up an entire pew and we don't hold hands. Occasionally I go to Mass alone for one reason or another and I just keep my hands folded. If someone attempts to hold my hand I just gently give them a "no" gesture and keep on praying. I make sure and smile though when refusing the invitation to hold hands.

[MarieT]

thats what i did on sunday lori.....with a smile also

marie

[Guest]

Father James Farfaglia gives a nice explanation of why holding hands should not be done:

http://www.fjicthus.com/Prod/76907a0211 ... -Page.aspx

[Denise]

I didn't see anything on that page about hand holding. Can you copy and past it here?

[Guest]

http://www.fjicthus.com/Prod/6445aee60a ... -Mass.aspx

Bodily gestures in the Catholic liturgy are very important. Every time that we participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, our bodily gestures make up a very important part of our worship. Making the sign of the cross, genuflecting, sitting, standing, kneeling, and the beating of our breast are all components and expressions of worship.

In recent times, there has been much confusion regarding certain aspects of our hand gestures during the Catholic Mass. I would like to take a few moments to address this confusion. There are three questions that are always being asked: 1) Is gesturing toward the priest with the hand while responding. "And also with you" considered correct? 2) Should the congregation pray with hands held in the orans position during the Our Father? 3) Is holding hands as the congregation recites the Our Father correct or even appropriate?

At the present moment, it is true that there is not a single ruling on the subject of hand gestures, either from the Congregation of Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments or from the U.S. Conference of Bishops. I believe that definitive norms on gesturing would provide clarity and uniformity. However, in the absence of such a norm, I would like to share my thoughts on resolving this issue.

Regarding the first question, as to a gesture on the part of the people towards the priest when the people respond "And also with you", my research on the subject, reveals no historical basis for this gesture within the liturgical tradition of the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Nor is there any history of people gesturing with their hands during the beginning of the Preface. These hand gestures, which have become quite common in parishes throughout the country, are innovations that have been introduced.

Secondly, as to praying with hands held in the orans position during the Our Father, there is an historical precedent for this bodily gesture in Catholicism. Pope Benedict XVI, writing as Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, in his widely popular book, The Spirit of the Liturgy, provides a detailed discussion of this subject (203-204). That being said, it is also true that praying with folded hands has always been part of our Catholic tradition.

However, I would argue that praying with hands held in the orans position during the Lord's Prayer or at other moments in the liturgy by the congregation is an innovation that has been introduced and encouraged as a novelty. Let us remember, as we saw in our first reflection on the Catholic Mass, that no one has the authority to spontaneously introduce novelties within the Catholic liturgy. The process for introducing any new rite or gesture into the liturgy in a stable or even binding manner is already contemplated in liturgical law. This process entails a two-thirds majority vote in the Conference of Bishops and the approval, or what is called the recognitio from the Holy See, before any change may take effect. Thus, if neither the U.S. Conference of Bishops nor the Holy See has seen fit to prescribe any posture for the recitation of the Our Father, it hardly permits any lesser authority to impose a novel gesture not required by liturgical law and expect the faithful to follow their decrees.

This is also true regarding the gesture of holding hands during the Our Father. There is nothing in our liturgical tradition that shows any history of the congregation holding hands during the Our Father. This too is an innovation that has been spontaneously introduced.

Regarding these innovative gestures and the silence on the part of the Holy See and the Bishops' Conference, it seems to me that there is a very clear answer on the subject. We need to keep in mind that the revised Roman Missal from Vatican II is not a departure from the Missal in use previously. The liturgical reform mandated by the Second Vatican Council organically flows from the Tridentine liturgy. Therefore, since there is no evidence of innovative hand gestures in the Tridentine liturgy, there should be no innovative hand gestures in the Vatican II liturgy without a clear and precise decision from Church authority.

Thus, answering the three questions that have been raised regarding the use of certain hand gestures in the Catholic Mass, I would conclude the following: 1) The use of hand gestures towards the priest with the response "And also with you" is an innovation that has no place within the Catholic Mass; 2) The use of the orans, a position with an established historical precedent in Christian prayer, should not be introduced into the Catholic Mass until a definition has been given by the authority of the Church; 3) The gesture of holding hands during the Our Father has no historical tradition in the Catholic liturgy and should not be introduced into the Catholic Mass unless the competent ecclesial authorities were to decide the contrary.

In conclusion, regarding the use of bodily gestures within the Catholic Mass, it seems to me that there needs to be unity. The people become confused when one parish does one thing and down the road or in the next town, another parish is doing something entirely different. "Therefore no other person whatsoever, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on their own authority" (Vatican II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, #22.3).