Faith vs. Works

[Denise]

Faith vs. Works

by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

What does the Bible Say? According to many, Protestants say we’re saved by faith while Catholics say we’re saved by good works.

But what does the Bible say?

This Sunday’s readings are clear – it’s neither. And it’s both. At the very same time.

First, let’s define our terms. When St. Paul speaks of “works” not being what saves us, he is really referring to two things. First of all, he is speaking about the “works” of the Mosaic Law, which include everything from keeping dietary regulations to observing the Ten Commandments. Secondly, it means good actions that a person carries out through his own willpower, without any particular help from God. Paul had thought that rigorous observance of the Law, carrying out its prescribed works, was the key to making a person right with God. But his attempts to observe the law met with frustration (see Romans 7:15-24). The law made him aware of God’s will but did not enable him to carry it out. “I cannot even understand my own actions. I do not do what I want to do but what I hate . . . what a wretched man I am.” His attempts at outward observance didn’t change his heart which was far from God. It was so far from God that he cruelly persecuted the followers of Jesus, looking on in approval as St. Stephen was stoned to death.

In Romans 3:23 St. Paul lays it out: we have all sinned seriously. None of us, on our own steam and by our own merits, can ever do enough to earn God’s favor. So God has fixed the problem – he gives us his favor as a free, undeserved gift in response to the sacrifice of Jesus His son. We become pleasing to him, reconciled to him, not by our own efforts but by the cross of Christ. We receive this gift through the act of faith. So we are saved by faith, not by the works – at least not by the works of the Mosaic Law, done by our own strength.

So the faith camp wins? Not so fast. Let’s take a closer look at what the Bible means by faith.

Many people think that faith is belief. Belief that God exists . . . that Jesus is the son of God . . . that Jesus rose from the dead. Intellectual assent to all these truths is of course important, and is an indispensable part of the act of faith. Such belief often leads to religious actions – the hanging of crucifixes in our home, the wearing of medals, the recitation of prayers. These acts of piety are also good.

But Sunday’s gospel says that mere belief and acts of piety are not enough to save us. Those rejected by God in Matthew 7:21-23 clearly “believed” in Jesus – in fact they prophesied and worked miracles in Jesus’ name. Perhaps they also said novenas in his name. But he said to them “out of my sight, you evil doers.” One of the strongest lines in the gospels gives the explanation of this: “None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”

Biblical faith is not just belief. It is surrender. It is a complete entrusting of oneself to God in Christ and acceptance of his power, his will, and his plan. If we truly say yes to Him and let his grace into our hearts, we’ll never be the same. His love begins to work through us and change our lives. His Spirit takes up residence within us, giving us the strength to do what we could never do on our own, even to begin to love like He loves.

So true biblical faith is not passive. It is active, dynamic, and alive. That’s why St. James says that faith without works is dead (James 2:24-26). Abraham believed that an unknown God was calling him to leave civilization and march into the desert to find a land that this God has promised him. He did not sit and contemplate this call or set up a shrine to this God. He got up and began walking (Genesis 12).

So we justified by faith, if we mean the authentic biblical faith that causes us to walk in God’s ways. And we are justified by works, if we mean the works of charity that can only flow from faith and grace.

So really, it’s not faith vs. works. It’s faith that works.

[KarlB]

A direct quote form James 2:24 is

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

which is remarkable in that it directly and scripturally contradicts Luther's assertion, freely paraphrasing Romans 3:28..

For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.

Luther arbitrarily added the word alone after faith and extrapolated that to draw a contention between faith and works, which does not exist in the original scipture. Works of Law, has a completely different connotation than works in this context.

Luther also referenced

Ga 2:16 -
yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified.

Again the term 'works of law' here does not refer to works manifested by faith (charity and other good works).. but was in the context of the debate over whether gentile converts were required to submit to Jewish law, such as circumcision (specifically here) or Jewish dietary laws.

[Guest]

I am not here for trouble but Catholics do not have the truth on this either

You cannot ignore Paul to hold onto James as both are truth. Look at
Ephesians 2:8,9 and then 10

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

notice it says FOR not by?
These aren't my views, it is as it says. (or do you think your church would contradict itself

Romans 4:4--6 also says we are saved then the works
Titus 3:5 adds - not by works of righteousness which we have done

You cannot argue with God's word, as a catholic, without twisting what IT says!

[MarieT]

You cannot argue with God's word, as a catholic, without twisting what IT says!

Moderators Warning: first and foremost "we're not arguing with God's word'

Secondly, your generalization that Catholics twist God's word has earned you a warning.

MarieT

[MarieT]

may the Lord grant us all discernment

marie

[Denise]

Ron, I don't know what bible you are using but there must be a misprint. Where are you getting your scripture from?

Denise

[Guest]

New King James

Read it for yourself

[Guest]

Marie, you said "may the Lord grant us all discernment " yet you give ME a warning

which way do you wantr it? I just showed one of the many ways that your church hasn't been using dicernment.

or is it that you only want what tickles your ears?

[MarieT]

Hiya Ron,
my previous post clearly states why you were given the warning. For further clarification please read the forum rules.

blessings
marie

[MarieT]

They also run a greater risk of reading the translators’ doctrinal views into the text because of the greater liberty in how to render it.

For example, dynamic Protestant translations, such as the NIV, tend to translate the Greek word ergon and its derivatives as "work" when it reinforces Protestant doctrine but as something else (such as "deeds" or "doing") when it would serve Catholic doctrine.

The NIV renders Romans 4:2 "If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works (ergon), he had something to boast about—but not before God." This passage is used to support the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone. But the NIV translates the erg- derivatives in Romans 2:6-7 differently: "God ‘will give to each person according to what he has done (erga).’ To those who by persistence in doing (ergou) good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."

If the erg- derivatives were translated consistently as "work" then it would be clear that the passage says God will judge "every person according to his works" and will give eternal life to those who seek immortality "by persistence in working good"—statements that support the Catholic view of salvation.

Even when there is no doctrinal agenda involved, it is difficult to do word studies in dynamic translations because of inconsistency in how words are rendered. Beyond this, the intent of the sacred author can be obscured.

source

marie

[Denise]

Ron, we use the Douay Rheims bible translated from the Latin Vulgate. If you do some research on your translation and the Douay you will see that the King James Version is sorely lacking. Note the difference in the KJ translation and the Douay.

KJ

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Douay

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

If you want to find the truth then do your research. It is everywhere to be found. Look at the history of the Douay and the history if the KJV.

The Catholic Church holds the fullness of truth and you can argue with that all you want to, but not here. We are here to give information and those who are searching for truth can do research on the information they are given. You can find secular texts and writings and get the facts.

Blessings
Denise

[Guest]

I'm just quotting scriptures such as

If Romans 11:6 tells us "6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[a] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."

and Romans 6:23 says "the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

And Romans 4:4 says - "Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt."

So in your own words, explain hhow it can be works if it is a free gift of God's Grace if you are saying you must have works? The saved theif at Calvary never did anything, no works, no baptism, no sinners prayer but he is in Heaven. So who is arguing? (I'm just stating the facts)

There is so much more that could be said - truthfully too!

[Denise]

compare Douay to what you just posted

KJV

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[a] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."

Douay

6 "It is not now by works"... If salvation were to come by works, done by nature, without faith and grace, salvation would not be a grace or favour, but a debt; but such dead works are indeed of no value in the sight of God towards salvation. It is not the same with regard to works done with, and by, God's grace; for to such works as these, he has promised eternal salvation.

KJV

23 For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Douay

23 For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

KJV

4:4 says - "Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt."

Let us take a look at what that means

Douay

4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.

4 "To him that worketh"... Vis., as of his own fund, or by his own strength. Such a man, says the apostle, challenges his reward as a debt due to his own performances; whereas he who worketh not, that is, who presumeth not upon any works done by his own strength, but seeketh justice through faith and grace, is freely justified by God's grace.

You might do well to visit this convert's site Here you can find the answers to your questions. I produce the cache copy so what you are looking for is highlighted. THIS page is also helpful in answering your questions and doubts.

God bless
Denise