Please be careful what you post concerning the many so-called apparitions and messages that are rampant these days. If you post something that gives favor to an unapproved apparition or message it will be deleted. You will find that some of these have been addressed already, and addressed in Truth.
If you are a supporter of some so-called apparition, seer or message and there is no approval on them by the local bishop of the Diocese where this is or has supposedly occured , the only information that is allowed to be posted is the fact that they are not approved, therefore warning the faithful.
If you are a supporter of an apparition, seer or some message that is not approved and you feel you must propagate it... then this is not the forum for you.
In addition, if anyone posts something that is contrary to what the Church has set down as true and right, the message will be deleted. If a person continues to post propaganda or ideas that are contrary to the Magisterium of the Church and Her Vicar, their membership will be deleted.
This forum is not a game nor a toy used by it's members but a place that those who are crying in the wilderness can come to and receive the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts but that is life!
The writing and information below may be helpful. Some people are not aware of the facts.
CAN YOU PUBLISH AN UN-APPROVED APPARITION
Publishers often post the following disclaimer inside their books.
"Since the abolition of Canon 1399 and 2318 of the former Canonical Code by Pope Paul VI in AAS 58 (1966), publications about new appearances, revelations, prophecies, miracles, etc., have been allowed to be distributed and read by the faithful without the express permission of the Church, providing that they contain nothing which contravenes faith or morals. This means no imprimatur is necessary."
While a book may not require an Imprimatur it is not true (nor never has been) that books on unapproved apparitions may be distributed. On October 23, 1995, the Vatican reaffirmed in the official journal of the Holy See, the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, that circulation of books on unapproved apparitions are forbidden. Therein, the Church wrote:
"The Interpretation given by some individuals to a Decision approved by Paul VI on 14 October 1966 and promulgated on 15 November of that year, in virtue of which writings and messages resulting from alleged revelations could be freely circulated in the Church, is absolutely groundless. This decision actually referred to the "abolition of the Index of Forbidden Books" and determined that -- after the relevant censures were lifted -- the moral obligation still remained of not circulating or reading those writings which endanger faith and morals.
It should be recalled however that with regard to the circulation of texts of alleged private revelations, canon 623 #1 of the current Code remains in force:
The Pastors of the Church have the right to demand that writings to be published by the Christian faithful, which touch upon faith or morals, be submitted to their judgment'.
Alleged supernatural revelations and writings concerning them are submitted in first instance to the judgment of the diocesan Bishop, and , in particular cases, to the judgment of the Episcopal Conference and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith."
The following is paraphrased from Catholic Replies by James J. Drummey (The Wanderer: July 30, 1998).
The writings of the Popes are published in a variety of forms: Apostolic Letters, Briefs, Bulls, Constitutions, Decrees, Decretals, Encyclicals, etc. They acquire their force by publication in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the official journal of the Apostolic See. Since these writings are the official pronouncements of the Magisterium or teaching office of the Church, Catholics are not free to disregard them. In the case of the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the Second Vatican Council stated, a "religious submission of will and of mind must be shown in a special way to the authentic teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking Ex Cathedra [i.e., infallibly]".
Now, these Catholic bookstores, Marian Centers, and publishers are violating the law of the Church, per the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, by promoting books and tapes in favor of Medjugorje, and refusing to have any opposing point of view in their stores.
To make an even greater sin, they even refuse to have approved private revelation of Our Lady in their stores with the proper Imprimatur, as in the case of The Miracle of Damascus by this author. Why? Because this author made it very clear in the book, that he would not have published the book if the local bishop had not only approved the seer but also his interpretation of the story of the apparition. That being the case, acceptance of a book on the true Virgin Mary had to be suppressed in order to protect the money and customer base created by the millions of dollars in the Medjugorje deception.
Booklets, leaflets, pamphlets, films, or books may not be used to promote an apparition or miracle that is under an interdiction of any kind. Contrary to what many will tell you, the abrogation of Canon Laws 1399 and 2318 do not permit the publication of apparitions unless no action or decision has been made by the local bishop. Any action that has been taken by the bishop must be obeyed. It matters not if he is a good or bad bishop, just as it does not matter if the seer is good or bad. God can use good or bad.
The promoters of un-approved apparitions and private revelations, appeal to two false conclusions from past Pope's statements, and in both cases they take statements out of context. As the Vatican has already clarified in their Nov. 1996 statement, "The interpretation given by some individuals to a Decision approved by Paul VI is absolutely groundless."
WHAT ABOUT POPE URGAN VIII?
And regarding Pope Urban VIII, this also is taken out of context. He was referring to a private revelation that was under investigation but no conclusion was reached yet, for as he said, "and if it should prove to be false". The question you should ask is "prove to be false" by whom? By the promoters, the sheep, the bishop of the mystic, or by Rome.
The doctrine of the Church is "to the judgment of the diocesan Bishop". Of course, there must be a period of time before the diocesan Bishop comes to a conclusion, and during this period of time one is not held responsible for a false belief. If, however, you continue to believe in a mystic that the local Bishop has "proved to be false", will you still "receive all the blessings as if it were to be true"? No! Because then you have violated the Fourth Commandment. "Honor your Father and your Mother" because no one can have God for their Father without having the Church for their Mother.
"But, Lord, I believed with all my heart." (Matt. 7:21=24) "Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day,
`Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?' And then will I profess unto them, `I never knew you, depart from me, you that work iniquity.' Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock."
The important thing about this statement of Christ is that the person was surprised, he thought he was doing the will of God, and he thought that the power he had to perform miracles and give prophesies was also from God. But this power was not from God. Christ goes on to say what the rules are. "He who hears my word" means all his words. Read HIS WORDS in Matt. 18:17 which states, "And if he will not hear them [witnesses or the facts] tell the church. And if he will not hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican."
THE LOCAL BISHOP
"We are of God. [the bishops] He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." (1 John 4:6)
When John wrote his three Epistles he was over 100 years old and all the other apostles had already been martyred. Where he says "we" he means the descendants of the apostles, the bishops.
When you say, "What if the bishop is a bad bishop?", you are saying that God has no power over His creatures. This powerless God of yours, can give prophesies and miracles to a mystic, but has no power over the very bishop that he commands us to obey to influence him to make the proper judgment. Therefore, you become your own bishops and your own Church. Then when you go up to heaven, He will say what? When you say I would rather believe in God than man, what you are really saying is I would rather believe in the mystic than the Church, and this is a Gnostic heresy.
Can a bishop make a mistake? Yes! But if you obey him, you are not sinning; but if you disobey him, you are, even if he made a mistake. However, I know of no private revelation in the 2000 year history of the Church that was condemned by a local bishop and later found to be true. I do know of private revelations that were approved by the local bishop and then found to be false. In fact one Pope lamented on his death bed that he almost brought the Church into its ruin by following a false mystic. That Pope was Urban VIII.
Experience with those who follow false apparitions will show that no amount of argument will convince them that they are wrong, since they get their information directly from "Heaven". These followers of false mystics are so brain-washed that: if the local Bishop condemns the apparitions, they say he is corrupt; if the Doctrine of the Faith condemns the apparition, they say the Doctrine is outdated; and even if the Holy Father condemns the apparition, (which has never happened in history) they will say that he is a false pope. They will only believe the message, nothing else.
It is the bishop and not us, or even a saint (as the Cure De Ares discovered), that God gave the gift of discernment. In Matthew 18: 17 Christ teaches us to take all questions to the Church, and then He threatens us with: "And if he will not hear them, tell the Church. And if you will not hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you bind on earth "
(Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Pages 289, 290) "By virtue of Divine right the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their dioceses. In regard to the relation between the Papal powers the Vatican Council declared: `This power of the Pope in no way derogates from the ordinary and immediate power of Episcopal jurisdiction by which bishops who have been set by the Holy Ghost to succeed and hold the place of the Apostles feed and govern each his own flock as true pastors; but rather, this authority is asserted, strengthened and vindicated by the Supreme and Universal Pastor."
Ordinary power refers to the authority of the bishop coming from his office. Even if you believe your bishop to be bad, whatever his decision on an apparition in his See is, it is bound in Heaven. You have an obligation of obedience to his decision. Saint Iranaeus, taught by Saint John, the Apostle, says, "Anything done without the bishop is from the Devil."
OBEDIENCE
I learned from the Vatican and the true seers that obedience is the key to knowing a true apparition from a false one. Listen to what St. Margaret Mary says:
"The greatest adversary of Jesus is Satan. Jesus warned me to be on guard and said my greatest defense was obedience. `Don't believe easily,' He said, `in every inspiration, and don't be too sure of it. Satan is furiously bent on deceiving you. So don't do anything without the approval of those who are guiding you. As long as you have the sanction of obedience, he can never delude you. He is completely powerless over those who obey.'
"Perhaps this explains the great power Satan is wielding today, especially within the Church. Where disobedience is rampant. Satan has a field day. On the other hand, `he is completely powerless over those who obey.'"
No message from Heaven will ever violate the Fourth Commandment of God. No message from Heaven will ever condone or advocate disobedience. Listen to the words of the Virgin Mary to Mary of Agreda, Book Four, Page 421:
"Many times, in the effort to avoid humiliation at the hands of the immediate superior, the subject appeals to the higher authority and thus asks for exemptions from those who have only a general information and cannot know or understand his particular needs or danger. It cannot be denied, that this is still a kind of obedience; but it is also certain, that it is a shift for greater liberty, diminishes the reward and incurs danger; since without doubt it is more meritorious to obey and subject oneself to the inferior authority, to those in a lower condition, and to those less favorably disposed to one's own views and inclinations."
And Our Mother, Mary, finished by saying,
"Look upon them [superiors] with reverence, as taking the place of Christ, and your merit will be abundant; follow my footsteps, my example and my doctrine, and you will be perfect in all things."
And maybe you will listen to the wisdom of Padre Pio: "Without obedience there is no virtue, without virtue there is no love, without love there is no God, without God there is no salvation." (Padre Pio)
Even the bible places obedience as the test of the true from the false spirits. "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone forth into the world. BY THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD KNOWN: --- HE WHO IS NOT OF GOD DOES NOT LISTEN TO US. BY THIS WE KNOW THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND THE SPIRIT OF ERROR." (1 John 4:1-6)
Obedience holds the most important of all tests in a private revelation, even though it is not the first thing looked at. The capacity of one to understand obedience, background, holiness, and humility are looked at first. Satan is not capable of obedience because that implies obeying a mere creature. This was the test that saved Sister Josefa Menendez from being fooled by the appearance of Satan as Our Lord. Her spiritual director ordered her to renew her vows at any and every appearance of Our Lord.
(THE WAY OF DIVINE LOVE, Page 129)
Whenever it was not Christ, "The arch-enemy was not able to endure such acts of faith and love, and his crafty wiles failed in the face of them." Even when the Virgin Mary appeared to her she would say--Page 131: "If you are the Mother of Jesus, allow me to renew before you the vow of virginity that I have made"
And again Our Lord told her--Page 414: "Seek Me in your Superiors. Listen to their words AS IF THEIR WORDS FELL FROM MY LIPS; I AM IN THEM FOR YOUR GUIDANCE."
"I want you always to obey and I, myself, will obey." (THE WAY OF DIVINE LOVE, by TAN)
Amazing, isn't it? God will obey the human that He placed in authority. But can it be any other way? If God did not obey, He would contradict His own words, "Whatever you bind on earth, I will bind in Heaven." How would we know if it was really God, or the father of lies. John told us how to know.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits ... he who is not of God does not listen to us [the bishops]. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (1 John 4:1-6)
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Concerning posts on apparitions, seers and messages
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